Thanks!! I was at a meeting of the French equivalent of the UK PmC assoc, which however functions very differently. I gave a presentation about the roots of PmC and as most of the people there used the flower I gave it large about Bill. When I got back I went through the designers manual and it reminded me how much reading it impacted by back in the day. David's a geezer but IMO the student of the master. Which isn't pejorative. I am too.
Yes, I would agree. Bill’s manual blew me away at the time, a remarkable work and still immensly powerful today. I was lucky enough to get David to teach at our place when he was in the UK (1994 I think) and he stayed on after the course with us (and partner Sue and young son Oliver) for a week. Talking with him every day and going to look at stuff locally with him was an amazing experience. I think his clarity of thought makes him a worthy foil to Bill.
Yes I remember you had him over but I couldn't make it. He's relaunching himself at the moment but I'm not sure that he's realised that things have moved on a lot. I did the translating question for him a few years ago when he was invited to give a video presentation during the national PmC meet-up. It was interesting.
Thanks Steve another great contribution, an interesting stitching together of the important bits in 1 readable document. I also teach from the 3 philosophies as BM called them: those of 1. Observing nature, 2. Working with nature, and 3. Allowing systems/elements to demonstrate their own evolution. The latter is not mentioned on your list though imo is fundamental to PC's uniqueness and effectiveness, as it is the root of the parable of the chicken, that illustrates so well the link between systems'/elements' inputs (needs), outputs (yields) and characteristics, that in turn form the basis of their integration (through guilds, beneficial relationships, functional diversity and application of all the other principles) to reduce work and pollution. For me this is one of the key edicts of PC design.
Thanks! I should have included allowing systems/elements to demonstrate their own evolution. What I did was to pull them from the designer's manual page I can't remember that does a synthesis . I'd forgotten all about the chicken!!
I don't know how anyone could forget to mention the Permaculture Chicken. Given the current state of affairs Permaculture Rat might be more appropriate. How can David Holmgren be 2nd class permaculture? And sorry to mention this, still alive. A complimentary and cooperative relationship surely throughout their careers. Bonding over the barbi and all that, cobba. O yes, Bob Marley says, One Love.
The point I'm trying to make is that Bill and David's work are complimentary. I got fed up with the chicken and replaced it with a duck or a pig or a human to explain the principle.
Great Steve- really clear and to the point.
Thanks!! I was at a meeting of the French equivalent of the UK PmC assoc, which however functions very differently. I gave a presentation about the roots of PmC and as most of the people there used the flower I gave it large about Bill. When I got back I went through the designers manual and it reminded me how much reading it impacted by back in the day. David's a geezer but IMO the student of the master. Which isn't pejorative. I am too.
Yes, I would agree. Bill’s manual blew me away at the time, a remarkable work and still immensly powerful today. I was lucky enough to get David to teach at our place when he was in the UK (1994 I think) and he stayed on after the course with us (and partner Sue and young son Oliver) for a week. Talking with him every day and going to look at stuff locally with him was an amazing experience. I think his clarity of thought makes him a worthy foil to Bill.
Yes I remember you had him over but I couldn't make it. He's relaunching himself at the moment but I'm not sure that he's realised that things have moved on a lot. I did the translating question for him a few years ago when he was invited to give a video presentation during the national PmC meet-up. It was interesting.
Thanks Steve another great contribution, an interesting stitching together of the important bits in 1 readable document. I also teach from the 3 philosophies as BM called them: those of 1. Observing nature, 2. Working with nature, and 3. Allowing systems/elements to demonstrate their own evolution. The latter is not mentioned on your list though imo is fundamental to PC's uniqueness and effectiveness, as it is the root of the parable of the chicken, that illustrates so well the link between systems'/elements' inputs (needs), outputs (yields) and characteristics, that in turn form the basis of their integration (through guilds, beneficial relationships, functional diversity and application of all the other principles) to reduce work and pollution. For me this is one of the key edicts of PC design.
Thanks! I should have included allowing systems/elements to demonstrate their own evolution. What I did was to pull them from the designer's manual page I can't remember that does a synthesis . I'd forgotten all about the chicken!!
I don't know how anyone could forget to mention the Permaculture Chicken. Given the current state of affairs Permaculture Rat might be more appropriate. How can David Holmgren be 2nd class permaculture? And sorry to mention this, still alive. A complimentary and cooperative relationship surely throughout their careers. Bonding over the barbi and all that, cobba. O yes, Bob Marley says, One Love.
The point I'm trying to make is that Bill and David's work are complimentary. I got fed up with the chicken and replaced it with a duck or a pig or a human to explain the principle.
Thank you, great stuff
Thanks! Glad you liked it.
I absolutely love this concise and objective summary about Permaculture. This will be referred to time and time again. Thank you.