It is a complex subject, because if all the permaculture people stay at home then that actually doesnt really dent international aviation, so it could be seen as an act of self harm, when so much good can come about from these events. Personally my only International Convergence was the one in London in 2015 so i can duck the accusations on that one. However I do teach in Africa or have done on several occasions, enough to kick start a very powerul movement, or least be part of energising the uptake of permaculture by many 1000's of people in East Africa. Would it have been better that i stayed at home? I am not sure really because the impact has been significant and is also on going. I am designing myself out of the system, and I think I need one more trip to Uganda to at least complete some of what i had started there. i do take many of the points about these international courses and guest tutors flying in, but we also know how much our presence is appreicated and has been impactful.
What has been more of a dilmma for me it whether to endorse and encourage some of my African counterparts who would love to go to Taiwan, would love to travel and would love to go anywhere really seeing as they have not had the opportunites to travel that we western folk have. I want these guys to grow in experience, confidence and stature, i know first hand just how difficult many people's live are there and how much knowledge of permaculture has helped empower very meaningful change. There are some absolutely wonderful accomplishments to be celebrated and shared by African pioneers like Paul Ogola, Deborah Aluka, Stella Amuge and many more. Paul, who has never left Africa would lvoe to do to Taiwan to be recognised for his incredible work in Homa Bay Kenya, it woiuld be his first ever flight.
Uganda, Kenya, Rwanda is also host to many millions of refugees, a human scrap heap, but also one rich in talent, human endeavour and more, I also feel we have to find ways to take part, to enable and empower these people because in my view these are the people who can maybe create a massive change seeing how they are so uninvested in the status quo. Staying at home is also ignoring the plight of so many people who are very ready to contribute to the shift to a different world.
Yes be very careful of your choices, calculated and informed, work hard to listen to and work with the ethical framework of permaculture, but it is also not a straightjacket, it is nuanced and pragmatic also. i will not be going to Taiwan, I hope to do one more East African PDC because there are 50 villages in Teso Uganda preparing for something like that after 4 years of work since their on line PDCc started them off and i know they crave in person teaching because they repeatedly ask for it.
I appreciate the points raised and basically agree, but we are part of an interconnected world that invovles a lot of people flying all over the place, pople who do not even think about the consequences, and that will only stop when something more powerful than a boycott by permaculture teachers takes hold.
Hi Steven, thanks for your comment. I'm definately not having a pop at people who travel to places where they are needed and leave behind an enduring legacy that means they aren't needed anymore sort of thing.
It would be ingenuous of me to do that as I flew all over the world back in the day designing, leading courses and training people to take over from me. There came a moment however when I stopped 1. because increasingly there were people in place or nearby who could do the job. 2. in places where I worked like West Africa internet access was slow, sparse and difficult, it was still a bit of a struggle 3 years ago for the PDC in Guinea and that was with the UN getting Orange engineers involved. Before that it would have been even harder. Nowadays it's all a lot better.
Yes I still get asked to go over and do stuff but people are happy to accept I don't fly anymore and repect it.
All of that said I'm not at all against people travelling who have a serious skill set and experience and taking it where it's needed. Darren Docherty was well received here. People are being more critical about Starhawks' coming visit, except the ones into her spiritual stuff of course.
I didn't even bother heading to London for the IPC. I've been to 2 Euro convergences one in England when I lived there and the other in Belgium when it got coupled to the Permafest of that year. I get concerned when we blindly copy existing models especially when serious critisicms can be levelled at those models.
totally agree with these comments - i'm writing this on an ageing mac (which is still a very modern and earth depleting technology) from my foreign holiday home (which is a family owned sleeps two converted barn) in the Brecon Hills in Wales, having made the 130 mile pilgrimage (by car) from poole on the south coast of england so i'm not ignorant of the irony - all fossil fuel based travel is damaging but some has such significant consequences it should be avoided unless no other options are available. I have flown 3 times in my 59 years(first on a school trip to jersey on a prop plane and then by jet to tenerife for a honeymoon in 89 and then to rhodes the subsequent year before the birth of our first child) and i'd never heard of permaculture at that point. My introduction was a few years later after a visit to the CAT on a holiday to Snowdonia and can say that was life changing for me - I hated gardening but seeing their urban demo garden with a courgette growing from a bucket inspired me as i liked cooking and we'd been introduced to exotic courgettes (we'd only ever had marrows) by keith floyd who travelled the world showing other cuisine so that we didnt have to. I thought i'd better get a book so got someone to get me the esteemed Graham Bell's 'Permaculture Garden' as i was totally taken in by its claims to 'grow all of our food for no work' - i loved all of the pencil drawings and ideas but still didnt understand that permaculture design is a whole system approach. I joined the permaculture association in 1998 and took out a subscription to Permaculture Magazine (in 98, pm 18 being my first and pm 94 being my last when the adverts seemed to outweigh the articles) and dreamed of having the time and money to attend a two week residential course, which having a mortgage, two children and only 10 days paid holiday a year was overwhelmingly unattainable. This changed for me in 2004 , attending the Braziers Park convergence (where i realised that the 'members' are the association and met some great people ,Aranya, Andy Goldring, Chris Evans, Graham Burnett, Peter Cow, Steve Charter and Robina Mcready) when the tireless educator, Aranya, announced he was going to be running a PDC, his first as lead tutor following attaining his diploma, as a weekly night class (in bridport)and 3 weekends on the Ourganics site (lived on and designed by the indefatigable Pat Bowcock) - this was wholly affordable (subsidised by the WEA and the blair govt had brought in working tax credits that meant for the first time as family, now with 3 children, we had some disposable income) and i was now working for a charity that gave decent holiday entitlements. I had also read my first proper permaculture book, Holmgren's 'Principles & Pathways'and began to understand the connective nature of good design. I attended the PDC and quickly realised that in many ways a PDC is really and introduction/entry point with the opportunity to do a design with good support from peers and the teachers. This led me to sign up for the diploma as it taught me that i was really only scratching the surface. Still being on a low income i decided that if permaculture design is for anybody then it must be for everybody and so set out to show it was possible (many of my friends on our local community garden were of the view that it's only for the monied middle classes who can afford a small holding on a welsh hillside) to do it with limited money, using only re-usable materials (skip dived folders and paper etc) where possible and doing all of my design work in an urban environment. It took me 7 years and Aranya became my lead tutor and mentor and is still a very good friend. All of my book purchases, courses and convergence attendances were paid for through being a support tutor on Aranya's PDC's that were all reasonably locally for me (i convened 2 within 5 miles) and nearly all of my designs were implemented and all close enough for me to document their implementation and results back when the diploma version included the additional criteria 'dissemination', 'community building', 'evaluation and costings' and 'symmetry' - my diploma scored highly on all of these as did my design examples and 'theory into action'. As well as Holmgren's book something else that he wrote had and still has a big influence on my behaviour was an article regarding 'permaculture & energy' ( https://permacultureactivist.net/2020/12/30/energy-and-permaculture-by-david-holmgren/ ) where he demonstrates what we can do to make a difference without having to think too much - his latest work 'Retrosuburbia' is a masterclass in what could be done and feels to me that it's what the UK Transition Network could've been and still could become - all this long write is a way of me trying to say that for me 'permaculture' is a journey or direction that we are attempting to reach but are a long way from in terms of our use of materials and energy and that the buddhist idea of skilful or unskillful actions (does it bring happiness or suffering to myself or others) is another tool we can use. Technology is a tool that can reduce our travel footprint as you have demonstrated with your example.
Wow! Thanks for all that Gary. Of course I've heard of you and your work so nice to read some background.
The technology has now spread and can be used, even 3/4 years ago when I ran the PDCs in Guinea we had connection problems and that was after Orange engineers had been in. It's a lot better now.
The Transition movement seems to have lost it's way, at least here in France. Rob gets invited over here and he waffles on about the importance of imagination and stuff which is fine. Someone who got Transition towns thing going in France packed it in a few years back because it had lost it's roots in Permaculture design.
Hi Steve, yes I do, why? Do we have friends or colleagues in common? I helped to get 'Transition BH' and the subsequent 'Transition Poole' going but like you found that it had lost it's way a bit, lots of 'knit and natter' groups and concerted efforts to challenge the council's sustainability credentials but very little notice of taking a design approach in spite of my keep bleating on about it - i think the final straw for me was when someone in the group had heard of 'the leeds apple abundance' project and wanted to copy it here as it seemed a good idea - when i suggested that maybe we should talk to the people who had apples going to waste in their gardens etc and look to see if anyone else wanted them (ie do a bit of basic surveying to identify needs and functions) before building a project that nobody wanted i was told that if we took that approach nothing would get done.
It is a complex subject, because if all the permaculture people stay at home then that actually doesnt really dent international aviation, so it could be seen as an act of self harm, when so much good can come about from these events. Personally my only International Convergence was the one in London in 2015 so i can duck the accusations on that one. However I do teach in Africa or have done on several occasions, enough to kick start a very powerul movement, or least be part of energising the uptake of permaculture by many 1000's of people in East Africa. Would it have been better that i stayed at home? I am not sure really because the impact has been significant and is also on going. I am designing myself out of the system, and I think I need one more trip to Uganda to at least complete some of what i had started there. i do take many of the points about these international courses and guest tutors flying in, but we also know how much our presence is appreicated and has been impactful.
What has been more of a dilmma for me it whether to endorse and encourage some of my African counterparts who would love to go to Taiwan, would love to travel and would love to go anywhere really seeing as they have not had the opportunites to travel that we western folk have. I want these guys to grow in experience, confidence and stature, i know first hand just how difficult many people's live are there and how much knowledge of permaculture has helped empower very meaningful change. There are some absolutely wonderful accomplishments to be celebrated and shared by African pioneers like Paul Ogola, Deborah Aluka, Stella Amuge and many more. Paul, who has never left Africa would lvoe to do to Taiwan to be recognised for his incredible work in Homa Bay Kenya, it woiuld be his first ever flight.
Uganda, Kenya, Rwanda is also host to many millions of refugees, a human scrap heap, but also one rich in talent, human endeavour and more, I also feel we have to find ways to take part, to enable and empower these people because in my view these are the people who can maybe create a massive change seeing how they are so uninvested in the status quo. Staying at home is also ignoring the plight of so many people who are very ready to contribute to the shift to a different world.
Yes be very careful of your choices, calculated and informed, work hard to listen to and work with the ethical framework of permaculture, but it is also not a straightjacket, it is nuanced and pragmatic also. i will not be going to Taiwan, I hope to do one more East African PDC because there are 50 villages in Teso Uganda preparing for something like that after 4 years of work since their on line PDCc started them off and i know they crave in person teaching because they repeatedly ask for it.
I appreciate the points raised and basically agree, but we are part of an interconnected world that invovles a lot of people flying all over the place, pople who do not even think about the consequences, and that will only stop when something more powerful than a boycott by permaculture teachers takes hold.
Hi Steven, thanks for your comment. I'm definately not having a pop at people who travel to places where they are needed and leave behind an enduring legacy that means they aren't needed anymore sort of thing.
It would be ingenuous of me to do that as I flew all over the world back in the day designing, leading courses and training people to take over from me. There came a moment however when I stopped 1. because increasingly there were people in place or nearby who could do the job. 2. in places where I worked like West Africa internet access was slow, sparse and difficult, it was still a bit of a struggle 3 years ago for the PDC in Guinea and that was with the UN getting Orange engineers involved. Before that it would have been even harder. Nowadays it's all a lot better.
Yes I still get asked to go over and do stuff but people are happy to accept I don't fly anymore and repect it.
All of that said I'm not at all against people travelling who have a serious skill set and experience and taking it where it's needed. Darren Docherty was well received here. People are being more critical about Starhawks' coming visit, except the ones into her spiritual stuff of course.
I didn't even bother heading to London for the IPC. I've been to 2 Euro convergences one in England when I lived there and the other in Belgium when it got coupled to the Permafest of that year. I get concerned when we blindly copy existing models especially when serious critisicms can be levelled at those models.
Steve
totally agree with these comments - i'm writing this on an ageing mac (which is still a very modern and earth depleting technology) from my foreign holiday home (which is a family owned sleeps two converted barn) in the Brecon Hills in Wales, having made the 130 mile pilgrimage (by car) from poole on the south coast of england so i'm not ignorant of the irony - all fossil fuel based travel is damaging but some has such significant consequences it should be avoided unless no other options are available. I have flown 3 times in my 59 years(first on a school trip to jersey on a prop plane and then by jet to tenerife for a honeymoon in 89 and then to rhodes the subsequent year before the birth of our first child) and i'd never heard of permaculture at that point. My introduction was a few years later after a visit to the CAT on a holiday to Snowdonia and can say that was life changing for me - I hated gardening but seeing their urban demo garden with a courgette growing from a bucket inspired me as i liked cooking and we'd been introduced to exotic courgettes (we'd only ever had marrows) by keith floyd who travelled the world showing other cuisine so that we didnt have to. I thought i'd better get a book so got someone to get me the esteemed Graham Bell's 'Permaculture Garden' as i was totally taken in by its claims to 'grow all of our food for no work' - i loved all of the pencil drawings and ideas but still didnt understand that permaculture design is a whole system approach. I joined the permaculture association in 1998 and took out a subscription to Permaculture Magazine (in 98, pm 18 being my first and pm 94 being my last when the adverts seemed to outweigh the articles) and dreamed of having the time and money to attend a two week residential course, which having a mortgage, two children and only 10 days paid holiday a year was overwhelmingly unattainable. This changed for me in 2004 , attending the Braziers Park convergence (where i realised that the 'members' are the association and met some great people ,Aranya, Andy Goldring, Chris Evans, Graham Burnett, Peter Cow, Steve Charter and Robina Mcready) when the tireless educator, Aranya, announced he was going to be running a PDC, his first as lead tutor following attaining his diploma, as a weekly night class (in bridport)and 3 weekends on the Ourganics site (lived on and designed by the indefatigable Pat Bowcock) - this was wholly affordable (subsidised by the WEA and the blair govt had brought in working tax credits that meant for the first time as family, now with 3 children, we had some disposable income) and i was now working for a charity that gave decent holiday entitlements. I had also read my first proper permaculture book, Holmgren's 'Principles & Pathways'and began to understand the connective nature of good design. I attended the PDC and quickly realised that in many ways a PDC is really and introduction/entry point with the opportunity to do a design with good support from peers and the teachers. This led me to sign up for the diploma as it taught me that i was really only scratching the surface. Still being on a low income i decided that if permaculture design is for anybody then it must be for everybody and so set out to show it was possible (many of my friends on our local community garden were of the view that it's only for the monied middle classes who can afford a small holding on a welsh hillside) to do it with limited money, using only re-usable materials (skip dived folders and paper etc) where possible and doing all of my design work in an urban environment. It took me 7 years and Aranya became my lead tutor and mentor and is still a very good friend. All of my book purchases, courses and convergence attendances were paid for through being a support tutor on Aranya's PDC's that were all reasonably locally for me (i convened 2 within 5 miles) and nearly all of my designs were implemented and all close enough for me to document their implementation and results back when the diploma version included the additional criteria 'dissemination', 'community building', 'evaluation and costings' and 'symmetry' - my diploma scored highly on all of these as did my design examples and 'theory into action'. As well as Holmgren's book something else that he wrote had and still has a big influence on my behaviour was an article regarding 'permaculture & energy' ( https://permacultureactivist.net/2020/12/30/energy-and-permaculture-by-david-holmgren/ ) where he demonstrates what we can do to make a difference without having to think too much - his latest work 'Retrosuburbia' is a masterclass in what could be done and feels to me that it's what the UK Transition Network could've been and still could become - all this long write is a way of me trying to say that for me 'permaculture' is a journey or direction that we are attempting to reach but are a long way from in terms of our use of materials and energy and that the buddhist idea of skilful or unskillful actions (does it bring happiness or suffering to myself or others) is another tool we can use. Technology is a tool that can reduce our travel footprint as you have demonstrated with your example.
Wow! Thanks for all that Gary. Of course I've heard of you and your work so nice to read some background.
The technology has now spread and can be used, even 3/4 years ago when I ran the PDCs in Guinea we had connection problems and that was after Orange engineers had been in. It's a lot better now.
I haven't read Holmgrens' book, as a bit of a specialist in urban permaculture I propose this sort of thing https://open.substack.com/pub/misrule/p/real-urban-permaculture?r=1lz2r1&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
The Transition movement seems to have lost it's way, at least here in France. Rob gets invited over here and he waffles on about the importance of imagination and stuff which is fine. Someone who got Transition towns thing going in France packed it in a few years back because it had lost it's roots in Permaculture design.
Thanks again
Steve
BTW do you live in Poole?
Hi Steve, yes I do, why? Do we have friends or colleagues in common? I helped to get 'Transition BH' and the subsequent 'Transition Poole' going but like you found that it had lost it's way a bit, lots of 'knit and natter' groups and concerted efforts to challenge the council's sustainability credentials but very little notice of taking a design approach in spite of my keep bleating on about it - i think the final straw for me was when someone in the group had heard of 'the leeds apple abundance' project and wanted to copy it here as it seemed a good idea - when i suggested that maybe we should talk to the people who had apples going to waste in their gardens etc and look to see if anyone else wanted them (ie do a bit of basic surveying to identify needs and functions) before building a project that nobody wanted i was told that if we took that approach nothing would get done.
Next time I'm over maybe we can catch up for a pint in the Victoria pub on Ashley road? My brother's local.